https://15questions.net/interview/seaworthy-matt-rosner-about-magic-sounds/page-1/

Seaworthy & Matt Rösner about the Magic of Sound(s)
“Is there a pathway to interspecies communication? Maybe – I’m just not quite sure animals would have anything nice to say about people!”

Part 1

Names: Cameron Webb aka Seaworthy, Matt Rösner
Nationality: Australian
Occupation: Composers, producers, sound artists
Recent release: Seaworthy and Matt Rösner team up for Deep Valley, out via 12K. 

Recommendations on the topic of sound: MR –  To be honest, I don’t really read much about sound. There was a time when I was deeply interested in how the brain processes sound and music’s effect on the brain. Oliver Sacks’  Musicophilia is a book that springs to mind. The Great Animal Orchestra by Bernie Krause certainly inspired me to consider the how nature’s soundscapes are being changed by the human race. 
CW – Notwithstanding literature on listening practice and field recording (such as ‘In the Field: Art of Field Recording’ by Lane and Carlyle), I also recommend exploring some of the scientific literature on bioacoustics and role of changing soundscapes on the ecology of terrestrial and aquatic wildlife. There is an abundance of literature, both recent and historic. However, with the rise of more affordable bioacoustics monitoring equipment, there is a growing body of scientific research in this field.

If you enjoyed this Seaworthy & Matt Rösner interview and would like to stay up to date with their music, visit Seaworthy on bandcamp and Matt Rösner’s official homepage.

When I listen to music, I see shapes, objects and colours. What happens in your body when you’re listening? Do you listen with your eyes open or closed?

Matt Rosner (MR) – To me, the listening experience really depends on the style of music that I am listening to. Ambient and slower tempo music definitely makes me slow down, close my eyes and become more inward looking and this is true of listening to nature all around us. It’s great to be in the zone and to be able to think more deeply through focused concentration. 

I find that music with a groove and faster tempo makes me want to move, dance or just tap my feet, nod my head and this type of listening also has a renewed place in my everyday life.

Cameron Webb (CW) – I slow down. I’m calmed (mostly, depending on what I’m listening to). But I also consume music throughout the day, it’s soundtracking moments of stress and calm, the commute to and from work, duties at work and at home, exercise and relaxation. 

But it’s the moments where an opportunity to listen in calm that are most appreciated. To slow down. Eyes closed mostly but to listen and look outside is a real joy. When I listen to music I’m mostly reflecting on landscapes, both real and imagined.

How do listening with headphones and listening through a stereo system change your experience of sound and music?  

MR – There is a physicality to listening on a good sound system that you don’t get with headphones and the acoustics of the room also add to the experience. 

I like the sense of community that you get when listening on speakers with others, its one of life’s great pleasures to share that experience. Headphone listening is more private and contemplative, I feel. 

CW – While the vast majority of my listening is through headphones, I do enjoy the opportunity to listen through a stereo. Perhaps not so much through the hustle and bustle of a busy household. But when the household is quite or home empty, there is great pleasure is the natural ambience of a space and the occasional drift into the room the outside world. 

Especially listening to ambient, electronic, or otherwise quiet music, that natural soundscape that seeps in can add new elements to the overall listening experience. 

Tell me about some of the albums or artists that you love specifically for their sound, please.

MR – Mick Turner, Australian guitar player famous for his work in the Dirty Three has a guitar sound that I am constantly falling back in love with. I love the texture and the warmth that Mick has to his playing.  

[Read our Mick Turner interview]

I love the sound of the old jazz classics – Coltrane, Davis and Ellington to name just a few, what they are achieved with just a few microphones and basic effects compared to the arsenal of the modern producer is extraordinary.  

CW – I’m drawn to aspects of recordings and sound that are scuffed up, noisy, and have textural aspects that give them an aged feel. I’m sure for many these are the faults they’re trying to remove from their recordings!

There are artists from the late 90s and early 2000s, lo-fi recordings made with 4-track cassettes and other pre-computer aided assistance. Bands such as Hood, and Empress. Other artists such as Low and Sparklehorse carried similar qualities across to some of their recordings too. 

As is the case with Matt, Mick Turner’s solo records, as well as those with The Dirty Three are wonderful. Loren Connors too. In recent years, I’ve really enjoyed the work of Zimoun. Fellow 12k artists are a constant inspiration.

[Read our Zimoun interview]

Do you experience strong emotional responses towards certain sounds? If so, what kind of sounds are these and do you have an explanation about the reasons for these responses?

MR – I love the sound of bowed strings, there is something primal about the bow rubbing against the strings and it has a natural texture to it. 

In the natural environment I get a strong response from the ebb and flow of the ocean, wind through a forest and the crunchy sound of footprints on a gravel road. This surely must be a link back to my youth spent outside in Western Australia.

CW. Frogs and birds. In particularly, there are local frog and bird calls that either mark the arrival of different seasons (such as the channel billed cuckoo that migrates to the woodlands around Sydney from New Guinea and Indonesia every spring) or climatic condition (such as the calls of certain frogs after spring and summer rains). 

These are just two examples of seasonal soundscape markers, I’ve always enjoyed the changing sounds of seasons.

There can be sounds which feel highly irritating to us and then there are others we could gladly listen to for hours. Do you have examples for either one or both of these? 

MR – Traffic and Air Travel sound when you are trying to capture field recordings is extremely irritating. When you spend a lot of time in nature surrounded by the environment you quickly recognise how much the man-made sound world intrudes on nature. 

I love the sound of a loop of guitar or piano that might be a bit noisy or a bit out of sync, that’s not quite perfect but it draws you into it. A passage of music that sounds natural and not too pristine.

CW – While I can tolerate it, and perhaps not even give it a second thought, as part of living in an urban area the sound of people planes, and traffic can also be incredibly disruptive and frustrating if I’m looking to listen to the local environment. Even moreso if I’m trying to record it. The sounds of human activity are becoming more and more prevalent and invasive, harder to escape. 

I do love the sound of distant sea shores. Growing up I spent much time on the south coast of NSW and when the wind and swell were just right, at night the sea provided a low rumbling hum that was quite hypnotic. Has been too long since I’ve experienced that, it’s something I should go in search of more often.

Are there everyday places, spaces, or devices which intrigue you by the way they sound? Which are these?

MR – I live on a small farm that is surrounded by forest. I am drawn to the changes in sound that occur through the seasons. Right now it’s winter and there is a fast running stream that creates a range of sound from a deep drone as the water passes through a pipe under a bridge through to percussive microsound as the stream hits a shallow bed of rocks. 

If I had to choose a device it would be my old second hand Akai Headrush pedal which creates some interesting delay and looping imperfections.

CW – In my role as a scientist, I work in a laboratory that’s filled with an inescapable hum of air conditioners and humidifiers. It’s a sound I’m used to and I can block it out during the day to day duties. But if I stop to listen, there are strange and unexpected subtleties to the drone of these systems that overlap and interact. 

I don’t get much opportunity to sit and listen but when I do its something I enjoy, perhaps moreso a reminder of the unnoticed soundscapes that accompany our everyday.

Have you ever been in spaces with extreme sonic characteristics, such as anechoic chambers or caves? What was the experience like?

MR – I have spent time in large industrial buildings with huge reverbs that create some interesting yet challenging to work with overtones. The sound can be almost overpowering when the volume is turned up and it can take on a tactile, physical element. 

I’ve not been in an anechoic chamber but would like to experience one in the future.

CW – Almost 20 years ago now, I had an opportunity to record within some decommissioned ammunitions bunkers. These were amazingly resonant spaces and I had an opportunity to play back both instrumental and environmental recordings in the spaces and I’m not sure I’ve ad such an immersive experience. 

The resulting recordings made up the album 1897 released by 12k and while I was incredibly happy with the work, the recordings probably didn’t do the experience inside those spaces justice.

Part 2

What are among your favourite spaces to record and play your music?

MR –  I love to record in older houses with wooden floor boards and taller ceilings. There is a coziness and warmth to the sound in these types of places. The Musicians Hut at Bundanon where Deep Valley was recorded is a space with these features. 

CW – The general aesthetics of a space are probably more important to me than the sonic qualities. But there are specific aspects to many spaces I can take great pleasure in exploring if given the chance. 

Do music and sound feel “material” to you? Does working with sound feel like you’re sculpting or shaping something?

MR – Yes, the recording process is very similar to sculpture. It involves addition and subtraction of material to create a new form. Sound is certainly a material, but the output is more ephemeral than a physical object and more impacted by what is going on around it by way of background noise or acoustic effects from the room or surroundings. 

Modern digital recording has added a visual element too, we can analyse sound to the nth degree and cut, filter and process it endless ways whilst hearing and seeing the results in real time. 

CW – Yes. I think in part this is due to my interests in the textural properties of sound. Beyond and musical notes and melodies, there are qualities to sound that are definitely worked with in the same approach I assume a sculpture would as well. 

How important is sound for our overall well-being and in how far do you feel the “acoustic health” of a society or environment is reflective of its overall health?  

MR – People who live in noisy man-made environments must be unhappy compared to those who live more in nature and there is a large body of research that shows this is the case. Societies that allow more green space and conservation areas will have human populations that have space for contemplation and reconnection to nature and family which can only be a positive thing. 

CW – I have little doubt that noise pollution can impact the health and wellbeing of individuals and the community more generally. We also all live in an increasingly noisy world. Exposure to persistent, loud or high frequency sounds has been shown to adversely impact people’s physical and mental health. 

As an environmental scientist, I’m also very interested in the impact to the local ecosystem of this noise. There are numerous studies that demonstrate that the intrusion of “human-made” sound into the local environment impacts the biological systems that drive the local ecosystem. Bird and frogs, that rely on sound for various behavioral aspects of their lifecycle, can be disrupted. There is even evidence that evolution is driving changes in their biology to navigate these disturbances. 

This not only applies to wildlife around our wetlands and woodlands but also the ocean. The impact of noise pollution in our oceans, especially shipping, has been shown to disrupt whales and other sea life adversely. Physical and chemical pollutants of our aquatic ecosystems may be a focus but sound pollution shouldn’t be ignored either.

Sound, song, and rhythm are all around us, from animal noises to the waves of the ocean. What, if any, are some of the most moving experiences you’ve had with these non-human-made sounds?  

MR –  Each year I am moved by the wall of sound consisting of a vast array of frogs when the winter weather arrives and the dry creeks fill up with rain. The soundscape gets really loud but each species occupies a unique frequency range to ensure that it doesn’t get drowned up by the others. I feel in awe of nature when I hear this. 

I am constantly amazed by the sounds that hydrophones capture underwater. It’s an alien world of clicks, pops and fixes that can range from high frequency rhythmic pulses to spacious bass tones. There is an unexpected element to hydrophones, it feels like you are never 100% sure of what you will capture. 

CW – Some of my earliest experiences in environmental research were associated with amphibian surveillance and it was a wonderful introduction to bioacoustics monitoring. The use of sound as a way to survey local wetlands for frog species, without the need to catch, capture, or kill specimens, was something I became greatly interested in. 

There are many field guides to assist identification of frogs based on their calls and this methodology has now been adapted to use with smartphones to assist citizen science projects. I’m grateful for this early experience opening more opportunities to explore the sounds of our local environment.

Many animals communicate through sound. Based either on experience or intuition, do you feel as though interspecies communication is possible and important? Is there a creative element to it, would you say?

MR – I am sure that animals communicate with each other through sound. Humans can’t claim that we have higher intelligence and only we can communicate with other species. You can witness this any day when observing birds – they communicate across species with calls that indicate danger. 

I recently saw this when a large Eagle was soaring above a group of ducks, kingfishers and wrens on the edge of a bushland. The smaller birds were making a lot of noise and moving quicky back into the shelter of the forest before I had even spotted the eagle. 

At the same time, I am convinced there is playful and creative aspect to how species communicate between each other. Maybe its a mechanism to ensure harmony, share common ideas and to learn from one another? Perhaps human should spend some more time observing this phenomenon? 

CW – There is no question sound plays a critical role in the biology or many animals, from finding a mate to finding food and from navigating to escaping a predator. Sound has such as complex role to play in the ecology of our local wildlife, whether it is on land, the sky, or in the water. 

While most people are familiar with bird calls and whale songs, there is so much more going on that escapes our attention. The high frequency calls of bats to catch insects or the wingbeat frequencies of insects that assist mating, it’s a fascinating area of research and I often wish I had more time to take a more academic approach to the recordings I make and incorporate into my musical work. 

Could sound ever provide a pathway to interspecies communication? Maybe, I’m just not quite sure they’d be anything nice to say about people!

Tinnitus and developing hyperacusis are very real risks for anyone working with sound. Do you take precautions in this regard and if you’re suffering from these or similar issues – how do you cope with them?

MR – Not very well. I have lost some hearing in the higher frequencies in one ear. I am now more conscious of protecting my hearing and should really invest in proper ear plugs. 

On top of this, I had one instance of Tinnitus last year due to loud exposure in an industrial factory without hearing protection and after 2 solid days of ringing in the ears was relieved when it finally dissipated.  As an artist that works with sound, its scared me! 

CW – While being an environmental scientist has taught me to be health conscious in many respects (especially sun protection), I haven’t good very smart in protection of my hearing. 

As I get older, it is clear there are some issues for me developing but that probably reflects many decades of music listening and experiencing many loud live performances without adequate protection. 

We can surround us with sound every second of the day. The great pianist Glenn Gould even considered this the ultimate delight. How do you see that yourself and what importance does silence hold?

MR – If there is no silence, there is no sound. Both states are complimentary to each other. 

Silence is so important to my well being and creative pursuits. I grew up in a quiet country and when I moved to the city in my 30s I struggled to deal with the noise, whether that was not being able to sleep due to the sound of the nearby port or not being able to find a suitable quiet place to record and create new works. 

When I escaped the city for a holiday, I was amazed at how much the silence and space was missing from my life. At first this was confronting, a remember lying in a dark room with the doors open to the forest and not being able deal with the quiet. After a few days, the space took hold and I had an outpouring of creativity which kick started my return to creating new music. 

CW – Silence is so difficult to find. But when there are moments or places of silence, it can provide a moment or two of calm. But I also think that calm can come from a noisy environment too, it probably is most dependent on the type of noise. 

There have been many moments spent in wetlands or woodlands with deafening insect sounds or along a coastline battered by wind and waves. These two moments are far from silent but still provide calm on a level akin to silence for me. 

Seth S. Horowitz called hearing the “universal sense” and emphasised that it was more precise and faster than any of our other senses, including vision. How would our world be different if we paid less attention to looks and listened more instead?

MR –There are certainly people that are visual, others that more aural and those that are tactile or more switched on by smell and taste. Our senses vary from person to person, and they can change over time or as we train ourselves to prioritise one sense over another. 

In the modern world we are bombarded with visual cues and enticements that are designed to attract and ultimately distract our attention away from what we are doing in a particular moment. As a person who is immersed in sound, switching off vision, closing one’s eyes and just listening has a profound effect on my thinking and creativity.

I am sure that others would also see a positive effect from slowing down to listen more, particularly to nature all around us. 

CW – For many of us, our visual senses are all important. But not everyone. For many different reasons, many also take note of or are reliant on sound. The world may be a better place it everyone stopped to notice both the small visual and sonic qualities of the world around us. 

Despite our preoccupation with looks, there is as much visual pollution on the planet as there is noise pollution. There is little doubt a quieter world would be a better place to live, at least for those of us that seek out stillness and calm!